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Post by Moongaze on Jul 23, 2008 16:17:17 GMT -5
I was interviewed for this and thought it was a good idea to share with everyone. Some of my beta testers remember the content of some of this article very well, hehe. www.giantrealm.com/gaming/add-on-copy-right-wrongObviously, I take copyright very seriously in regards to programming code. It's hard with World of Warcraft addon programming since a lot of the code really can't be done any other way and will always look the same or appear to be copied. However, some features that are created are totally unique and those are the parts that we look at for copyright stuff. I'm glad that someone did an article on this though. Hopefully it will open some peoples' eyes I didn't know about WoWAce and Curse, though ... that's a new one for me. I need to get back into the drama and gossip that engulfs all of the WOW UI sites. ;D
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Post by Jonsnow on Jul 23, 2008 16:36:35 GMT -5
I think you don't need more drama with wowace
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Post by lothaer on Jul 23, 2008 21:39:00 GMT -5
interesting read and i do remember the issue with Sphere... i wonder what ever happened to it last i heard it was abandoned.
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larania
Very Talkative Beta Tester
Posts: 128
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Post by larania on Jul 23, 2008 23:30:40 GMT -5
Bah I remember that Sphere thing really well.. And yah last I heard it was abandoned, Benumbed couldn't get it to work and Moon was going far to fast with his mod
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Post by Moongaze on Jul 24, 2008 2:06:33 GMT -5
And then I slowed down to a crawl =) j/k
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Post by grimble on Jul 25, 2008 12:53:27 GMT -5
Sounds like the bloke is a pillock - Benumbed that is I find it really weird that people actually think that its acceptable to steal part of something and claim it as their own. If somebody nicked half the cheese out of my sandwich and added pickle to it, it'd still be the cheese from my sandwich - just covered with nasty smelly stuff
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Post by viserion on Jul 25, 2008 13:44:13 GMT -5
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Post by Moongaze on Jul 25, 2008 17:05:39 GMT -5
Thanks. Just caught up on it and, wow ... I guess some people don't quite get it when it comes to code copyright. Some of the people in that thread are of the opinion that if an addon author makes something, it's for the community and it shouldn't matter if the code is copied or not. *sigh* People just don't understand, I guess...
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Post by viserion on Jul 25, 2008 19:41:56 GMT -5
I know what you mean. I've written 10+ addons at this point but have never released them due this very reason. I imagine it's only going to get worse with the free beta keys that you can get now through wowinterface and curse for releasing an addon. I was going to release a couple just to get a beta key but now...
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Post by sapph on Jul 31, 2008 10:30:02 GMT -5
I've thought about this a lot. I got into programming back in 6th grade through the Warcraft 3 map editor, where map theft seems to be a rampant problem.
I think part of the problem is that these tools are just thrown to the developers without much in the way of extensive documentation, so much of what can be done is trial and error. Since the source code is the mod instead of just being able to distribute binaries, fledgling modders feel no qualms about learning by example and making the mod their own.
For instance, the once popular warlock mod Necrosis irritated me on just about every level. Some of the English localization was poor, it spammed chat with embarrassing phrases intended to be "cool" and "warlocky", and was generally bloated. I spent two weeks trimming it down and making it mine. Would I ever rebrand and rerelease it? Of course not! It was still Necrosis, just pruned.
Where is the line drawn though? The article mentions that the off-shoot mod had become a thing of its own, with lots of the base code rewritten and innovated upon. At which point is the original developer no longer entitled to his intellectual property?
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Post by Moongaze on Jul 31, 2008 14:43:57 GMT -5
It's a gray area because if you take, say, 10 lines of code from a program and then switch them around a little bit, add another 10 lines of code that are littered throughout the original 10 lines of code, have everything (variable wise) renamed or stored in a different location (such as a table/array) ... one could argue that it was derivitive of the original code, or that it is totally unique and new. A lot of code with addon creation is based on code from another addon or Blizzard's own LUA code that they let us look at. Some code, however, is "new" and that is where the original developer is entitled to the copyright.
Mazzle had issues with his "unique" code. His database for storing the exact locations, sizes, scales, and angle data for the 3d models being used. This is something that was hand-created and totally unique and his. Benumbed copied it and didn't even try to change it and just used it. That is what gave him away.
LunarSphere, way back over a year ago, had specific tricks applied to generate the gauges and have them fill the way they do. The code was unique, and when I downloaded the "Sphere" addon and its gauges did the same thing as mine, I had to check his code and sure enough, almost completely copy-pasted, and then he renamed some variables. I basically told him to place in his code or on his wiki (or both) that his addon was also based on LunarSphere (it originally made no mention of it). After that, I changed my internal database so ours would be different and in doing so, allowed for my database to actually grow and evolve into something that could handle the stance data properly along with a bunch of other features I wanted to add.
There is one addon project that I know of called "Carbonite" which actually uses some slight "encoding" of the source code that prevents the user from being able to read the source code. The addon is decoded while reloading the interface (which takes anywhere from 20-60 seconds to load JUST that addon), but their code is very safe and can't be viewed currently. I have thought of doing that with some of my game addons but decided that it would be better to just show the code. It's not like I couldn't totally tell if someone copied one of my game addons in WOW ... no one else has the stuff I made in WOW addon form, hehe.
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Post by sapph on Jul 31, 2008 15:33:25 GMT -5
It's an interesting dilemma to be sure. Back to the WC3 map example - I used to be a strong advocate of protection. I would lock my maps (not that I ever finished and released any of them... a fault of mine ^^), and the idea of someone taking my precious creations and rebranding them was nothing short of horrifying.
Then I realized that almost all of my initial coding/mapping experience came from this process: "That map/application/website/whatever is awesome. How did they pull off (such and such a feature)?!" If the source is available, I'll look at it, annotate it, and in the case of a WC3 map, frequently incorporate it (in a written from scratch format) into my own map. I would never, ever pass off copy-and-pasted functionality as my own, but the learning potential of a well written anything is invaluable.
If not for unlocked WC3 maps, I never would have discovered the idea of arrays and loops (sounds amusing in retrospect, being the software engineer that I've grown into), and developed a passion for writing elegant code. The open source nature of the WC3 mapping community literally made me who I am today. For that reason, my stance on map locking has softened a lot recently.
If Blizzard incorporated some near-uncrackable way to hardcode original author information and version history into a map/addon, I think that would solve a lot of problems.
</offtopic musings>
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Post by kyouraku on Aug 8, 2008 0:06:11 GMT -5
Moon, how do you feel about GPLing the code, if possible? The GNU/GPL to my understanding is the license that most open-source applications are released under. Basically, it provides protection to ensure you're given credit for the work you've done, but still opens the code to the community, which I feel is generally important. In the event that anyone starts ripping off your work, the GPL can be invoked to get them to either remove your code from their application, or include the entirety of the credit ascribed to you. www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
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Post by Moongaze on Aug 8, 2008 7:37:16 GMT -5
I've been checking out that license for a while and will probably be using it, but until LunarSphere is made public, I wanted to keep it fairly restrictive. Mainly for the purpose of distribution right now. People have asked if they could host the project and I've said yes before, but those were fairly private or close-knit communities as well, so it was all good. When it gets onto Curse, WowUI, WowInterface, and LunarAddons, I will most likely have the GNU attached to it due to the large audience I'll have. And, well ... this is my baby and I'm proud of it, but if I ever stop playing or upkeeping it, I would hope that someone would take over and if the GNU was on it, that would be much easier, eh?
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Post by kyouraku on Aug 8, 2008 19:53:04 GMT -5
That's an awesome way to look at it. You've put a ton of work into LunarSphere, and you deserve the credit for it! If it helps, I /think/ that the Auctioneer family of mods uses the GNU GPL to copyleft their code, and they haven't had too much trouble. It will also mean that you can host on Sourceforge if you like, as well as any other UI mod sites. Sourceforge to my knowledge is free, so you don't need to worry about bandwidth issues with the free upload services like Rapidshare.
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Post by Chaos on Aug 10, 2008 17:36:10 GMT -5
Some people do understand code copyright. I still get annoying people bugging me cause I won't give permission for my mods since I quit WoW months ago.
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